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Come with me to Rome, O my love, For there is love, and joy, and life; We shall vie with each other To know the greater joy in life. Do you not hear a voice in your heart Which promises eternal happiness? Have faith in that sweet voice And take me, as husband, to your heart! Thus I hear his voice Always, everywhere, even in the temple — His eyes, his face? He triumphs over my tears, He conquers my sorrow.
God, take away from me this delight — Or else forgive my sin. Spare me further pain! You will not leave me? Oh no, I can not - I shall come. I tremble Tonight to embrace them. Many passions Torture my soul. I love and yet I hate My children! I suffer when I see them, I suffer when I do not, I feel pain Together with joy, as never before, In being their mother. O Clotilde! Pollione has been Recalled to Rome. Oh, if he tried to flee — Leaving me here? If only I could forget These sons of his! It is too much? Such a doubt is too horrible. Someone is coming. Why are you trembling? They told me You had a secret to tell me.
Give me courage, that I May reveal my heart wholly to you. What is it? Do not be angry - I fought long To stifle it. It conquered all my strength, All remorse. You do not know the oath I swore just now! To flee from the temple, To betray the altar to which I am sworn, To leave my fatherland.
The morning of your life Is already clouded! How and when Did this love come to you? I trembled? Lost in beholding His beauty, I seemed to find A new heaven in his face. I too Felt that when I first saw his face. Every day the fire of love Burned with a greater flame. Let me breathe the breath Of your sweet sighs, Give me the curls Of your hair to kiss.
So my lover spoke to me - Opening the way to my heart. I forgive you and weep for you. From your vows I free you, I break the sacred bonds. You shall live happy, forever, Close to the man you love You have given me life again, If my love is not a sin. Who is he? Have I understood you? What have you done? For whom! For whom are you trembling? Do not tremble, faithless man, No, not for her - She is not to blame, The guilty one is you. Tremble for yourself, traitor? Tell me! You are silent. You draw back? It would have been far better To die than ever to have known him.
The source of eternal tears, He opened, too, to you; The wretch betrayed your heart, as well. My heart quakes to ask you, My heart fears to know the truth. Heartbroken, now I understand The full depth of my misfortune, My boundless misery, If he has so deceived me. Let there be peace For this troubled girl. Hide from that pure soul Our shame, as if with a veil. Let Heaven alone be judge Of whose is the greater fault. Follow him! I should rather die. Forget your children, your promises, your honour.
Cursed by my disdain, you will find No joy in your sinful love Over the seas, borne on the winds, My burning hatred will pursue you. Night and day my fury Will rage around you Let your fury Invoke eternal anguish upon me! The love which is now my master Is greater than you or I. No god could ever fashion Greater suffering than mine. Cursed was I that day When fate gave me to you.
Seas and mountains forever Will divide me from the traitor. I shall stifle my cries And swallow my anguish; I shall die to bring back This cruel man to his children, to you. They will not see The hand which strikes them. No remorse O my heart; They must not live. Anguish here? Slaves of a stepmother. Ah no, never! They must die. I cannot go nearer: A chill seizes me, my hair Stands with fright.
To kill my children! Tender babies, until now The joy of my life? What guilt have they? They are the children of Pollione: That is their crime! For me, they have already died; Let them die for him, too. May his anguish be greater than any other. Strike - Ah no! They are my children, mine! Oh, Clotilde! Come - quickly! How pale And sad your face! I ask One thing, which you will do If my present grief and my grief to come Deserves pity.
I have resolved To cleanse this earth Of my existence. I cannot take these poor children With me: I entrust them to you. To me? To him whom I dare not name. I forgive him, And now I shall die. No, never! Ah, take them with you, Succour them, protect them. I do not ask for glory and Honours? That will be for your own sons. I ask only that my children Be not abandoned to wretchedness and slavery. Remember that it was for you That I was betrayed and cast aside! Keep your children. May I never Leave this land. But only to do good for you. Now I shall go to the Roman camp And assail him with your laments.
The compassion you have stirred in me Will speak out in sublime tones. Do not despair? I am sure I know his heart? And Norma, there, shall reign again! Ah no? Let pity for them move you, If you feel no pity for yourself Such illusions, such hopes Are not for one about to die He loves you. I have found my friend again. For the rest of my life I shall always stay with you. The earth is big enough To shelter us both from love.
Together with you, courageously, We shall fight outrageous Destiny, As long as in our breasts Our loving hearts shall beat To judge from the signs: the warlike chants, The noise, the clang of arms, The banners waving in the breeze. ALL Let us wait. This slight delay Must not disturb us nor hold us back In silence let our hearts prepare Fulfillment of our mighty task I had hoped to come, Bearer of better news. The unselfish ardour, The anger seething in your breasts, I had hoped to second?
The hated Proconsul Still does not leave our land? He is not returning to Rome? Does she still Speak to us of peace? I feel it too. I too chafe beneath the Roman yoke And long from battle. But Heaven is against us. We must pretend docility. The day will come when it will blaze forth To burn with a fiercer flame. Yes, I have faith In Adalgisa. He will return, repentant, Suppliant, my lover again. This thought Cleaves the black cloud Which weighted upon me, and the sun Breaks through, bright as on the first day of love. Be brave! She left me and, made lovelier by her grief, She went to him.
She betrayed me!
Sad and anguished, she begs To offer up her vows. But my vengeance will strike first? And blood? Roman blood? The shield of Irminsul has sounded. What meaning does it have? Raise your voices, o brave men, In the hymn of battle! ALL To battle! In the forest of Gaul Brave warriors outnumber the trees. As hungry wolves fall upon the flock, We shall strike at the soldiers of Rome. The Gallic axes Are bathed in the blood of the Roman Over the impure waters of the Liguri It gushes with deathly sound.
Slaughter, extermination and vengeance Already begin and will soon be fulfilled. Like grain mowed down by the sickle, The Roman legions shall fall. With proud wings clipped with talons drawn, Behold the mighty eagle on the ground! And God will come on the rays of the sun To behold the triumph of his men. Will you not tell us who the victim is to be?
The awful altar has never lacked its victims. But what confusion! ALL A Roman? If it were he? ALL They are bringing him here. But do not question me. Make way. Why do you hesitate? Leave me for a moment. No one else can break your bonds. I can. Swear it! What are you saying? I did not strike? I shall commit the fearful excess, Forgetting I am a mother.
Give it rather to me. And Adalgisa? Kill me, kill me, But on her have pity Too late? I'll strike your heart through hers Already, in your eyes, I feed upon Your anguish for her death; I can, at last I can make you As unhappy as I myself am! Vent your fury on me, But spare an innocent girl. Let it suffice, for your vengeance, That I kill myself now before you Already in your eyes I feed upon Your anguish for her death!
I can, at last make you As unhappy as I myself am! Cruel one, vent your fury on me, But spare an innocent girl! Cruel woman! Let it suffice, my tragedy, That I kill myself before you. Give me the dagger! Stand back. Priests, come here now! A perjured Priestess has broken her holy vows, Has betrayed her nation and our fathers' gods.
ALL A crime! Oh, what wrath! Tell us all. ALL Who is she? Shall I, So guilty, accuse her of my own sin? ALL Speak: who is she? Build the pyre. ALL I am frozen with horror! ALL You? In vain you sought To flee from me; Cruel Roman, at last You are with me. A god, a fate Stronger than you, Wills us together In life and death. On the same pyre Which consumes me, And in the earth, I shall be with you. Let us die together, Yes, let us die: My last word will be That I love you. But you, in dying, Must not hate me.
Before you die, Forgive me. ALL Oh, be your true self again, reassure us: An aged father beseeches you. Say you were speaking false, it is not true. That the words you spoke were wild. The austere God who hears you now Is silent and holds back his thunder. This is a sign, the clearest sign, That He will not punish,Ah no, that God will not punish you! You are silent? You scarcely heed us! And my children? What anguish! Beyond any mortal power to say.
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Clotilde has my children. Take them - save them - Together with her? One last request? Oh, do not cut them down In the innocence of childhood. Remember that I am your blood, Have pity on my children. Oh father, have pity, Have pity on my children. Father, oh father? I ask no more? I am happy, And gladly I shall ascend the pyre! She prays? Her prayers will be rejected. Tear from her brow the sacred wreath, Place upon her the veil of death!
Your tears have told me, etc. There beyond, purer, holier, Begins eternal love! You are a father's right. Colli in distanza sparsi di selve. Per ultimo Oroveso coi maggiori Sacerdoti. Ed il primier sorriso Del virginal suo viso Tre volte annunzi il mistico Bronzo sacerdotal! O Luna, t'affretta! Si allontanano tutti e si perdono nella foresta; di quando in quando si odono le loro voci risuonare in lontananza.
La madre de' tuoi figli! Ministra al tempio Di questo Dio di sangue, Ella v'appare Come raggio di stella in ciel turbato. E amato Sei tu del pari? Quando fra noi terribile Viene a locarsi un'ombra L'ampio mantel druidico Come un vapor l'ingombra; Cade sull'ara il folgore, D'un vel si copre il giorno, Muto si spande intorno Un sepolcrale orror. Squilla il sacro bronzo. I suoi riti a compiere Norma, Norma dal tempio move. Ite, profani, altrove, Ite altrove, ite altrove! Ite, profani, altrove, Ite altrove. Pollione e Flavio partono rapidamente.
Ella viene, e la stella di Roma Sbigottita si copre d'un velo; Irminsul corre i campi del cielo Qual cometa fioriera d'orror. Ha sciolto i capegli, la fronte circondata di una corona di verbena, ed armata la mano d'una falce d'oro. Si colloca sulla pietra druidica, e volge gli occhi d'intorno come ispirata. Tutti fanno silenzio. V'ha chi presume Dettar responsi alla veggente Norma, E di Roma affrettar il fato arcano? Ei non dipende, no, non dipende Da potere umano. Contaminate assai Non fur le patrie selve E i templi aviti Dall'aquile latine? Quai sorti?
L'ora aspettate, l'ora fatal Che compia il gran decreto. Pace v'intimo … E il sacro vischio io mieto. Falca il vischio; le Sacerdotesse lo raccolgono in canestri di vimini; Norma si avanza e stende le braccia al cielo; la luna splende in tutta la sua luce; tutti si prostrano. Casta Diva, che inargenti Queste sacre antiche piante, Al noi volgi il bel sembiante, Senza nube e senza vel! Spargi in terra quella pace Che regnar tu fai nel ciel. E il sacro bosco Sia disgombro dai profani. Punirlo io posso. They have two cotton strings, and after brewing, you lift the tea bag and pull the strings and they squeeze the teabag, so all the goodness and the rich brown colour comes out, and also they don't drip when you take them out.
I just had my first cuppa Comment The eyes are the best ; At least one Chinese kid told me that for fish-eyes. I couldn't dare even looking at him when he picked them and ate them Comment O yes fish eyes are delicious - the Russians call it Kaviar! Maybe I mixed it up with fish eggs?? Comment Well, if I had the choice between Chinese bird soup and Scottish oat cakes, I'd take the oat cakes.
Although they probably don't even have eyes :-P I hope your tea and cakes taste as wonderful as they sound, Goldammer! Comment 75 Oh cummon, Goldammer! Don't be so serious! Even shhh hears the sound of taste in your comments regarding cakes and teas I looked it up - Ha! Comment I wonder where the single malt might be. Das offizielle Bier der Serie "Game of Thrones".
Comment Cuppa: I only picked it up from the text on the tea bag box myself, RenaRd , honestly: "Tetleys Easy Squeeze, non-drip, no mess tea bags. Because you want a great tasting cuppa, not a mess. Lara : I'll have a sip of "Iron Throne Ale", thanks! Btw, have you got an idea when Martin plans to finish the next volume?? Comment Oh — beer? And thank you, Amy-MiMi, for the delicious almond bars — I love them! And thanks for the support — a problem shared is a problem halved, isn't it? Pippa G: You seem not to have activated your PM-messages, do you? This seems to be a pity - at least for me ;-.
Comment Lucy, the original QZ is "Quasselzimmer" the one with only a number in the title, which originally came about so that the tab could stay open without arousing suspicion at work. Comment I move we stick to pistachios from now on, they're much easier to pronounce : Thanks for the shell, by the way, lovely as always. Comment zu 84, re Mal" nicht funktioniert: Wie oft kann man etwas zum 3. Mal machen?
Comment What's up with LEO? I keep getting gateway errors :- Am I the only one, or did anyone else have the same problem?
Other sites are working fine, so it seems the problem isn't on my end Comment Hi shhh, I had the same problems just this minute I read the "Betrifft Leo" page whether other users had posted the same problem. Someone wrote that after a few tries everything was fine again. But now it all works again, lucky me! Hope that your problem will be gone soon, too!
Comment Well, I'm glad I'm not the only one :- And it seems to work again! Amy, hast du diese Woche nicht endlich schulfrei, und wenn ja, konntest du dich ein bisschen ausruhen? Comment Good evening! I am doing well. But the inundation of the city was quite serious 51 casualties! Over Easter I was on a birding trip to the Chaco northern Argentina , and just came back on Wednesday after it had happened. The museum was without electricity on Wednesday, the floor of my laboratory was partly inundated due to the decrepit roofing , and yesterday there was no Internet access.
Comment I'd like to call your attention to this language lab inquiry of mine: related discussion: " Comment WK: Das klingt gar nicht gut. Ja, ich hatte diese Woche schulfrei. Wir waren bei meinen Eltern. Das war toll, aber auch ein bisschen traurig, da meine Mutter immer zerbrechlicher wird. Sie unternimmt wenig mit uns, obwohl sie es gern hat, dass wir besuchen. Am Anfang wollte mein Vater nur Fernsehen schauen, Basketball und Baseball, aber dann hat er doch ein paar Sachen mit uns gemacht. Inzwischen scheint dieses Zimmer eher ein Snack- als ein Schnack-Zimmer.
Comment Welcome back, hm -- us! Very nice pun, Amy-MiMi, however, who, then, laid out almond bars in 65? It was "Bounty" with two almond on it. Now I have diabetes. I hope it gets warmer soon because the deer are already during the day in our garden and they eat up all the bushes and the spring flowers. Today I will deer stalk with my camera. I would love to catch one, because: "Das Reh ist ebenso scheu wie schmackhaft". Comment Roast of venison? That would have to hang for a while Driving with friends' we almost catched a deer on the entry to a highway.
I would say "a" as the "h" is more pronounced than in "hour" e. Everybody seems to think about eating and food. My Easter eggs are gone. But one could still get colored eggs hard boiled at many shops. Comment waltherwithh: a highway, weil man das h ausspricht Steve: Und Emil: Okay, ich gebe es zu. Ich habe damit angefangen, aber anscheinend haben die almond bars WK gefallen. Comment Thanks Ami-MiMi, so my feeling was correct Getting ready to fry some shrimps which I will mix with garlic oil into pasta and some side salad, some red wine will complete the meal.
Comment You are racing again! Thank you for the new house, Amy, and I have now two CCs to catch up on. But, with the move done, and a very relaxed job for the time being : , I should be able to read up. Unless my moving goods finally arrive, then I will be busy unpacking. I just love Mozartkugeln. Thank you, Sachs! Welcome back, hm. Maybe you could consider to move to a different browser? IE tends to block everything by default, so I hardly ever use it.
I am astonished Amy was off last week, as here the schools seem to be out this coming week which is a little bit odd. Comment Dixie: Vermutlich kommt es darauf an, wann das Schuljahr zu Ende ist. Das klingt toll. Hast du einen langen Weg hinter dir, oder bist einfach in ein neues Haus mit Seeblick gezogen? Comment Amy-MiMi Sie unternimmt wenig mit uns, obwohl sie es gern hat, dass wir sie besuchen or: zu Besuch kommen. The "normal" word when elderly people get frail is " ge brechlich - but if you wanted to particularly espress that she might suffer a fracture very easily, you could use "zerbrechlich", too We went to one of our all time favorite places today, on the Danube near Rechtenstein in case somebody wants to google There is a kind of branch of the Danube called "Braunsel" which is very picturesque, and in another little side valley with a creek in it, there's one of the biggest occurences?
Vorkommen of wild spring snowflakes that I know of.
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There are millions, really! It was absoulutely stunning once again, as every year. Jetzt habe ich ein kleines obschon bedeutendes Problem: mein Auto springt nicht an. Man muss die Kupplung beteiligen, bevor man den Wagen starten kann. Ich kann morgen das Auto zur Reparatur bringen.
Hoffentlich werden sie das bis Dienstag wieder in Ordnung bringen. Diese Woche habe ich Ferien; so ist alles nicht so schlimm, als wenn ich arbeiten musste. Comment Danke, dass du waltherwithh korrigiert hast, Robert. Ich hatte das vor, habe es aber doch vergessen. Ich sitze am Computer und arbeite gaaaaanz langsam und nicht besonders effektiv. Comment Thank you, Amy, for the doorlet : I have nearly another Seeblick, but this time it is a lake, not a Bay.
The move was about km, so going forward I can offer plenty of rain-related reports, less sun-related ones though. But I am enjoying the rain, strange as it may sound. Comment Ja, unsere Dixie ist schnell! Es gibt so viele interessante Ecken in DE, die ich noch nicht kenne. Aber die Blumen sind wahrscheinlich snow drops , oder? Goldammer is most probably right with the name. Comment Hallo, liebe Schnecken! Kaum schaut man ein paar Tage nicht herein, da veranstaltet ihr hier Gelage - tsk tsk! Ein "r" fehlte. Comment Goldammer, that sounds lovely!
Pippa, crumbs, which crumbs? Vacation or no vacation, this must be annoying :- But it's good to hear that your conference was interesting! Spring seems to be finally arriving, or at least dropping by. Yesterday was wonderfully sunny although still somewhat cold. We had an impromptu Tanztee does this exist in English-speaking countries? What would you call it? It felt really spring-like, and I'm still in a good mood Comment WK is right, his link shows the flowers we saw. Robert: display - interesting! I had no idea so far of this meaning of "display", but leo has it as "Ausbreitung" Comment Just to add to the confusion, this is what I know as March cups 6g , while the leucojum vernum is known as spring knot flower 6g to me.
I can't believe it! Comment What are you folks talking about? Only when compared, the "als" is needed. I think "wonderful" refers to a noun Yesterday and therefor it's an adjective. Am I wrong? Comment In my opinion "wonderfully" is just a regular adverb; amazingly cheap, frightfully easy or wonderfully sunny, it's all the same to the grammarians. Wikipedia calls this usage "regional", FWIW. Comment Amazing, Carullus. Leo educates every day. Comment Here it is becoming autumn. The leaves of the tree in front of the balcony of my apartment are turning yellow. I believe in schoener-garten.
Comment I fully agree, RenaRd , as I said in my original posting, they were spring snowflakes you also find them when you picture google that. Leo says the same. Perfectly fine for Carullus and the people in his neck of the wood, interesting for me to learn. Maybe even in the CC. Robert - did you get your car fixed?
It seems that you are spending quite some time of your life at a repair shop. Or maybe that's because you work on your posts while having your car serviced. Does anyone here have winter aconites Winterling in their garden? Da mein Auto schon 15 Jahre alt ist, haben sie das Ding einfach vom Auto entfernt. Mit 15 ist der Wagen nicht mehr so begehrt. Langsam wird's Zeit, meinen Wagen zu ersetzen. Ich hatte vor, den Wagen bis zu So, die Konferenz war gut, interessant und hilfreich.
Ich hatte vor, heute mich einfach auszuruhen und vielleicht ein bisschen von Las Vegas zu sehen. Ich finde es gut, dass ich nicht schon am Sonntag oder heute wieder nach Hause fahren wollte. Nun kann heute Abend hier gut schlafen und morgen frisch und munter nach Hause fahren. Ich stimme Carullus zu. Ich denke RenaRd hat das -ly am Ende nicht gesehen oder wahrgenommen, da er von "wonderful" spricht.
First, I think, it needed to be "kommt es mir gelegen", but even then I think "etwas kommt mir gelegen" is not very commonly used - what do the others say? I might have said Comment Winterlinge aconites cover my garden in the very early spring. They are already gone. I think they need a special soil as friends of mine could not grow any in their yards. I gave them seed and bulbs also, no success.
VERY slowly it is getting warmer, a nice lukewarm spring rain would be nice in my area, at the moment a drizzle only. Colloquial for Robert --US Yours sounded a bit formal. Osterglocken narcissus pseudonarcissus are in general yellow with a lot of varieties in the meantime. Amaryllis and Narcissus. In my family and even in my area I have never heard that the first ones would be called "Osterglocken". Now some housekeeping and later a few errands. When I got up this morning, for the first time in many weeks the outside temperature was not below freezing point.
And for the next weekend temperatures around 20 degrees centigrade are expected. So, next week I will have to absquatulate a word I've never seen before, I just checked Leo whether there was an alternativ for "to flee". I have, however, not yet checked temperatures in Salt Lake City. But surely I misunderstood? I'd never say "wie wenn" in any circumstances. Or is that just me? Comment Gibson, I somehow share your discomfort?? The second sentence is a comparison as in Robert's example to a situation where "Es" is inconvenient, but not as inconvenient as it would have been if Robert would have had to work.
The second sentence is just a statement putting "Es" into perspective without comparing it to other situations. The second sentence is obviously wrong, wouldn't you agree? Comment Hi, shhh! I think we covered different aspects of the question, so Gibson must be very very happy now Comment But she's not : I see where you're coming from and I agree, in theory, but I still think the sentence sounds awful with "wie". Maybe - because I totally see your point in the long version - you simply can't shorten it. I'd rephrase the whole thing and avoid the problem ;.
Comment I just cycled into town to the butcher's to get what I need for my cooking - and guess what? I didn't need gloves and the sun was shining!!! Aren't we making progess?? Looking on the rain radar, I can see that the next rain storm is approaching rapidly from south west, but all the same Comment Gibson, that's why I said that I share your discomfort. I agree with you that the shortened sentence lacks elegance ;-.
In the meaning of "als ob", too. By the way: is the comma behind but correct? Goldammer, neck of wood This idiomatic sentence needs an "s" at the end neck of wood s. I agree that "wonderfully" is an adverb - belonging to which verb of this sentence? It was? No adverb, an adjective. Where am I wrong?? Das Gestern, der gestrige Tag". Also Adjectiv! Did I miss the way somewhere? Goldammer, what about your german sense? Comment RenaRd, an adverb can also relate to an adjective - in the case of my sentence, "sunny".
Comment I agree that "wonderfully" is an adverb Excellent Despite the name, adverbs are words that can modify practically anything but nouns and pronouns. They modify adjectives aha! A word is an adverb if it answers how, when, or where. Comment Shhh If you're right I'm wrong. But I'm old and balky: Ad-verb latin means that the attribute must relate to a verb. Sunna is another attribute. Am I caught in a vicious circle? Edit: Oh, carullus made it even clearer.
Comment Carullus, while you were writing this, I was consulting my grammar, planning to post something beginning with "despite the name, adverbs can relate to Only after I had started participating in here regularly, I bought myself a short and the Huge version of the Duden Grammar - and I'm using them quite a lot since then, to back up my feel for my own language with knowledge, so to speak. Formerly I thought my brain is enough but years might have corroded some dropouts on my harddisk Comment Ich stimme Carullus und Goldammer zu.
Hier ist ein anderes Beispiel: It was an absolutely beautiful painting. Nicht Etymologie sondern Gebrauch bestimmt Bedeutung. Machen die Dinger dann den Diebstahl sicher? Es ist im Moment sehr windig; ich hoffe, dass das keine Schwierigkeiten beim Fahren verursacht. Comment Amy-Mimi , ja meine Drohung hat geholfen. The next day we had one egg and the following days always three. Comment Steve: Das freut mich. Comment Another and maybe even more idiomatic word Robert could have used is "Wegfahrsperre".
Comment harambee: Wegfahrsperre scheint logischer, aus der Perspektive einer Nichtmuttersprachlerin gesehen. Das ist idiomatischer, finde ich. Comment Thank you, I was thinking about bringing this up, and then forgot; I definitely second Wegfahrsperre. Thank you for the grapefruits, Mimi, I'll have one.
Re: the anesthetized snails: " Your version is not wrong, but it would be understood to mean "something could go slightly wrong". Don't you just love language? Comment Has anybody seen my manners? I took two of the pomelos and savoured them. Did I say thank you? No, I didn't :- What can I do now? Should I hope that nobody saw me?
I really need advice. Comment harambee ein paar manners reiche! Comment I just had a grapefruit , heaven knows from where, the peal was almost an inch thick and the fruit inside had the size of a small orange. And it was very sour. So I will pick one of Amy's. Comment I'll have a grapefruit first and then one of Lucy's Manners.
Comment harambee, your manners were hidden behind this pile of delicious grapefruits. I'll eat another one, maybe then you can see them better ;- Thanks, Amy! Mmm, I love fresh fruit. And a Mannerschnitte will compliment that nicely, I think, thanks, Lucy Comment Amy MiMi : Thanks for everything even sounds better.
Like "savour" - why did I never ever hear it before? These snails are really inventive, I guess Comment Hi everybody! Please cheer me up! You don't know what happened! Well, it wasn't a disaster, but it wasn't pleasant either. It was by mistake that I happened to upload an upgraded test version of Avast! When this test version expired I returned to the downgraded free version.
Surprise, surprise! When I restarted my computer I didn't have any access to internet. No matter what I tried there was no connexion for a week. Today someone came to get it fixed. At first he didn't believe that this was due to Avast!. It took him 2 and half hours to get it fixed. It looks like Avast! When this man had already gone I realised that my mailbox had gone. It's a conventional novel that reminds me a lot of Iris Murdoch. I enjoyed it! Now I need a drink before I go to bed. Die Schnecken Steine. Habe selber einen ziemlich unangenehmen Tag gehabt. Now I need a driink before I go to bed.
Damit kann ich behilflich sein. Hoffentlich ist "at the weekend" richtig. Das ist ein Witz! Oh, danke. Deine Korrekturen finde ich wirklich toll und echt hilfreich, obwohl Ob ich den Halbsatz je wieder verwenden kann? Comment I was confused by the Mannerschnitten - I somehow expected, what are they called again - Kinderschnitten? Very disappointing. Comment Thank you, Pippa. I've never seen those before not really amazing, I am not into this type of "Waffeln".
Wenn man Direktoren auch narkotisiert, hat man einen noch ruhigeren Tag. Kisan, wenn ich einen schlechten Tag habe, denke ich oft an die Worte eines ehemaligen Pastors. Leider muss ich das auf Englisch wiedergeben. Comment Now this is what I'd call a perfect pun, Robert! Thanks for sharing it! I'd say "Kassenschlange", btw. Comment Simply cannot resist A very wet day in Hesse, but I have to get out for a doctor's appointment. Opened the inlets for the water collection bins. Is this CC going to become a crime scene with narcotica and "sweet poison"? Grabbing some fruit and running away! Comment Goldammer , ich glaube Robert meint die Schlange vor den "Check-outs", bei denen man die Ware selbst scannen muss und dann per Karte bezahlt.
Jetzt nehme ich noch die letzte Grapefruit mit - danke, Amy! Comment Oh well, I seem to be behind the time there The only shop I know a "Selbstbedienungsschlange" from is Ikea. I only learned this last year and was quite lost at first Comment IKEA has them here read: in Austria as well, yes, but so far I've not seen any other retailers use that technology. Surely only a matter of time Bei euch in Australien nur mit Kreditkarte?
Ich frage mich, was wir alle machen, wenn wir die vielen Dienstleistungsberufe abschaffen. Woran liegt das? Bei Safari? Bei LEO? Zopfig ist pej. Das klingt komisch. Ginge das? Geht das auf Englisch? Comment I somply was afraid to ask what Mannerschnitten" are. I thought all of you knew Thank you Pippa G for giving me back self-confidence. Apropos manneers: I must have lost mine lately.
Gott erhalte Franz den Kaiser
I'd like to thank everybody carullus, shhh, Robert etc. I just was lost in the latin translation. Carullus , a matter of time : It sure is, I'm afraid. When I visited London two years ago every grocery had this "Check-Outs" is this the word for that self-service-thing? But I guess it might be helpful for those who bought only one item of whatever.
I tried it a few times when I really had only a handful of items, but the computer had wrong prices, did not accept my bills and coins etc. It took me longer to get out from the shop than waiting in the longest queue I am afraid it is the "progress" and "future", in reality they just save expenses for staff - or at least try it.
Comment Amy , man kann sagen "running behind time", wie "running late", jedenfalls hier in Australien. Comment Diese Selbstbediengungskassen gefallen mir nicht. Comment "Wer wird denn gleich in die Luft gehen?! Am I allowed to offer some what was the expression? Or did you think of it in a satiric way?
Than "machine" sounds perfect to me. And the sentence therefore ends with " helfen musste ". You're very emotional when situations like this appear in your mind's eye, aren't you? Ja, ich kann mich manchmal ziemlich aufregen. Ich schiebe heute die Schuld auf meine Post-Buch-Depression.
Tell me more! About the book, not he depression. Other peoples depressions are depressing me Comment Ich habe ein Buch gelesen und bin jetzt deprimiert, weil es so gut war und jetzt zu Ende ist. Das Buch war der erste Band einer geplannten Buch Reihe. Irgendwann letzte Woche erreichte einen Punkt, wo ich nur noch dieses Buch lesen wollte. Das erste Buch war wirklich nur "the tip of the iceberg". We'll settle for the title and the author for the time being Comment Hello everyone! Yann , 14 Oct UTC.
This project is much too small for fragmentation. Being together promotes co-operation. Eclecticology , 14 Oct UTC. I think the voting should last more than two weeks. It's too little time for such an important decision. An information about the voting on the main pages would be useful to get more vote. I've put it only on the German page. Ich habe nur einen auf die deutsche Seite gesetzt. While I understand the desire to split off projects for languages with large corpus and living speakers who'd like navigation in their language, there are a few efforts to put create articles that are source texts in fairly obscure dead languages, like the Gothic gospel effort in Patrologia Latina and my own efforts in Codex Hamurrabi.
This is an article that can use plenty of help from speakers of any language, but each of them would prefer to navigate the source site in their own langage, rather than in Akkadian. On ancient languages: Most classical languages are still used enough today to get domains of their own on other wikimedia projects, namely: Greek, Latin, Arabic, Hebrew.
Annotated critical editions are done in modern languages or sometimes in Latin. If someone produces a digital edition of an Akkadian text with the notes in German, it belongs on a German domain. If the same text is annoted in French, it belongs on a French domain, and the two should be linked. Dovi , 29 Oct UTC.
The vote will end two weeks from the date of my signature. Die Abstimmung endet am Le vote prend fin le De Stemming eindigt 28 october Note: You cannot count only the edits of the dynamic IP that people without user name have, when they vote. I have counted some of my edits, and this are more than I don't know about other IP-users.
If they did more than only voting here, they should say it. Wenn die hier auch mehr gemacht haben als abstimmen, dann sollten sie es sagen. Query: I do not support the whole vote counting thing. But for those who do, do hundreds of edits on hewikisource: count? How about the edits by active other users of the Hebrew domain, who didn't vote, but who would not be using it had it not been set up? I have taken the time to read through all the arguments again, and there are many good arguments either way. I have been giving this a lot of thought, and my opposition is far from total. If we choose to create language domains, I will work at creating a Danish WS.
My biggest concern is the small language domains becoming one-man-projects - some languages have very few editors here. I have no idea if this will change with language subdomains, but if the argumentation that language barriers keeps people away from the project is valid, then it will change with the domains and interfaces! Of cource there is no proof that this barrier exists, but there is no proof either that it doesn't. The results of the vote defininitely shows a majority wanting language subdomains, when counting only the number of votes. Looking at the voters activity at WS it clearly shows that those with many edits are the ones who wants to keep things as they are, while those who support language domains have not edited much.
As I see the results of the votes there is a demand for language subdomains. If the subdomains are created it will be important to have some kind of meta-WS, either at wikisource. Whether the wikisourse project as a whole will gain or loose from the creation of subdomains is an open question. Keeping the project in one domain has it's own problems - English dominance will probably allways prevail to some extent wiht the linguistic barriers it contains, creating subdomains will have others - like keeping the project as multilingual as it is at present, with easy access to source texts in all languages.
Also ich finde diese Abstimmung eine Farce. Entweder ein Nutzer kann gut genug Englisch, um sich jetzt schon zu beteiligen und stimmt hier dann vielleicht eher gegen den Vorschlag ab da wohl eher Englisch-Muttersprachler. Wann wird das Ergebnis denn endlich umgesetzt? Ich hoffe hier wird endlich mal Tacheles geredet. Is it possible to draw a final conclusion? I believe that I am not the only one looking forward to the conclusion of this matter, subdomains or not.
Should we ask Tim Starling to comment on the vote? I'd be inclined to include the people who are active on other projects, but not to include anons or users who have no significant contributions on any other project. The result under those rules is the same as the result if you only count Wikisource contributors, as the analysis sections imply. I'd have to call it against splitting.
There's certainly no signficant supermajority. Let's just leave it as it is, for now at least. There is an international leadership, namely the m:Board of Trustees. I asked Angela about this before the vote, and both Angela and Anthere recently on IRC, but they wouldn't be drawn into giving an opinion. They don't want to get involved. I can't remember if I asked Jimbo about it or not, but if I did, he didn't give a conclusive answer.
So it's up to me to organise it. I'm not saying the issue is closed. If the circumstances change, for example a new feature in MediaWiki which impacts on this debate, it might be better to start a new vote than to continue the current one, if a vote is necessary.
Hi Tim. I am home on a one-day break from what might be called an enforced "vacation" I won't go into the details , but the bottom line is that I won't be able to participate fully until sometime next week. In the meantime, here is my reaction to what you wrote above. Despite the large numerical majority for subdomains, to be fair I think a lot of us would still agree with you that the vote was inconclusive.
I really wish the fantastic German anon who contributed so much to the discussion would have simply logged in! I think a lot of the anons were contributers to other wikimedia projects who had no account here, something that is absolutely clear for at least a couple of them. It is natural enough to say, as you did, that if there is no strong vote for change, then just let things stay the way they are for now.
That is true for a lot of things in life, but this case is different, because it is a clear-cut case of discrimination. Here it is a matter not of what the rather monolithic majority currently dominating this small project wants, but rather of the rights of various minorities to use tools that should be readily available to them. A veritable German-speaking community wants a domain, yet a wikimedia project is actually selfish enough to deny it to them, although it is easily available and does no harm to anyone?
Arabic users find out on their own too late for the vote that they cannot properly edit their version of the Quran on the current LTR Wikisource, and now they will have to beg here for a domain of their own and perhaps even be denied it? Future software is irrelevant and will change nothing.
There is nothing to wait for: All of us can already try out the new interface language-option at the test-wiki log in and click "Special:Preferences". But the interface option does nothing whatsoever about the real issue here: providing a language-environment that lets subcommunities develop and work on texts together. That, along with dozens of other seemingly minor examples from the php codes of the language domains are the real issue, along with the sense of community and common culture that the domains encourage.
It is these details, within separate domains, that make it possible for monolingual users to use and enjoy the various sister projects, and without this far fewer language-projects would ever have grown within them. It is a truly incredible achievement. I have done most of what I can already on this topic. I suggest to the German-Spanish-Arabic and other users who still want domains to keep pressing the issue here and on Meta. There will be a change in policy very soon if a number of people keep pushing for it. In the meantime, I also suggest that contributors start providing all of their texts with some annotation e.
Explanation: Wikibooks already has proper language support with domains and interwiki links. Wikibooks supports annotated texts as its official policy. At the same time, early Wikisource discussions agreed to host annotated texts here as well, but it was never actually implemented.
Thus, the line between the two projects regarding annotated texts is currently blurry. Bottom line, this is a case of discrimination that simply has no justification at all. It is entirely against the spirit of wikimedia. And even the vote was inconclusive, to say the least. Dovi , 8 Nov UTC.
Hi Christian S. Thanks for your comments and I totally agree with your idea: It seems to me too that each project, even with subdomains, must also have a neutral multilingual space for "meta" type discussions, coordination, and various languages helping each other. Both meta for planning and policy and also a kind of embassy to assist those who want to navigate among the various languages. Let's say there are subdomains with prefixes en:, fr:, de:, etc. It seems natural that the "neutral" domain would be the original one left without the prefix, namely: wikiquote.
And the fact that there is not totally satisfactory language-support is not even so crucial for multilingual discussion as opposed to detailed work on content. Even if and when there are subdomains here, Wikisource's highly active "Scriptorium" can and should keep on going exactly like it has been doing until now, and other neutral forums can be added as well. From an "official" point of view, the board isn't going to make a decision that goes again the wishes of the community, and from the votes above there is not a consensus to change.
From a personal point of view, I support splitting, and I oppose the fact that people with no involvement with Wikisource are voting. If you look at those with at least edits, it seems only 2 are in favour of splitting and 8 are against. I don't feel it would be sensible for the board to overrule this vote. People interested in this need to try to come to a consensus about it on the project. A lot of the votes against splitting seem to be under the assumption that some new interface is going to come along and magically solve the problem.
How about a compromise situation whereby Wikisource is split until that happens? It could be merged back if and when that ever does happen. Considering the fact that the current code for doing this is resulting in fatal errors and that the translations in the MediaWiki namespace can not be applied back to the language.
Angela , 9 Nov UTC. Ich habe gerade mal das test-wiki ausprobiert. Es scheint noch Probleme zu geben, denn wenn ich mit deutschem Interface versuche Seiten aufzurufen, kommt immer eine Fehlermeldung. Das System sollte schon ausgereift sein, bevor man es einsetzt. Bei entsprechender Wahl sollten auch die Hauptseite so wie alle anderen Spezialseiten auf dieser Sprache sein. Got some computer access now, and will respond to Ec's recent comments below with indents: Dovi , 14 Nov UTC. I really don't think that speaking of these issues in terms of discrimination, or of continuing pressure until you get the result that you want is at all helpful.